In response to Ali: You are obviously not reading my posts in detail if you come up with statements like I am ignoring the fact the the Prophet took part in war. I am the one that brought it up in my previous post. In Islam, there are rules of warfare and etiquette to war which includes protecting the lives of innocents. In the Islamic tradition, the Quran does not stand in singularity. It is accompanied by the Hadiths and Seerah of the Prophet which help explain the Quran. For example, if the Quran says pray, then the Hadiths give us details on how to say prayers. The seerah or biography of the Prophet gives us the context to revelation. The hadiths such as Sahih al-Bukhari and the accounts of the Seerah such as the work by Ibn al-Kathir can be found just as commonly as the Quran in Muslim homes because they are all related and important in gaining the correct understanding. The Seerah is particularly important when discussing verses that call for Jihad against the Zalimun (oppressors/idolators). Many of these verses have a specific context in which they were revealed.. i.e. when the pagans of Mecca and the Muslims and al-Ansar were locked in battle. In other cases where Jihad is mentioned, there is an emphasis on the limits which I discussed in my previous post.. Regardless, even if your argument that the Qur'an calls for the killing of non-Muslims was valid, then the terrorists who have been killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims are going against even your twisted interpretation. The MSA has a weekly discussions on Fridays called Broadening your Horzions. You are more than welcome to attend and engage in a healthy discussion.

Ali, I guess cherry-picking from holy books is not a problem for you either, and unfortunately, in your very innocent yet arrogant tone, you are wrong again in many ways (one of which is in saying that "Islam is responsible for...acts of horror and brutality," which is wrong; so-called Muslims may be, but Islam is not). Let me begin by saying that Prophet Muhammad fought against brutal persecutors (in DEFENSE) and for the safety of his followers (such as women and children, and no, he did not kill to convert...he fought other WARRIORS in defense without fearing his own death). I encourage anyone who cares a little more than Ali (about the majority of Muslims, including innocent women and children, for example, and not the minority extremists and/or corrupt leaders) to read about the nature and context of battles in the rise of Islam and the etiquette of war in Islam, and then COMPARE what you read to what Christians and Jews have done...and if you have a sincere and honest heart, you will be surprised to find that Islam is the most merciful and just of them all. Why? Because it is a result of revelation from the same God that sent His message to the prophets of Christianity and Judaism, and hundreds of thousands of prophets before. Unfortunately, many stubbornly did not listen to Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc., and those people are the ones who played a role in the deviation of religions like Christianity and Judaism from the teachings of Jesus, Moses, etc. After Moses, people began to deviate from his teachings (that came from God), so God sent Jesus (among a few others, such as Jacob and John), in order to revive the peoples' faith and loyalty to God, and many became believers again, but the revival died down and Jesus’ teachings were twisted by arrogant and evil false preachers. As a result, God chose another prophet, Muhammad, to revive them again (and Muhammad was actually the "Holy Spirit" that Christians were expecting to come, but most of them did not believe it was him when he claimed to be God's last messenger). Etc., etc., and all of this goes back hundreds of thousands of prophets to the first prophet and first human being, Adam. So Islam is not foreign. It is just a noun in Arabic for "submission to God alone," and it has been preached by many prophets before Muhammad, just in different languages and in different parts of the world. Anyways, and as I implied before, the verses Ali plucks out of the Qur'an are all taken out of context. These were all commands for the early Muslims who were being persecuted and had to DEFEND for the lives of their mothers, sisters and children. And lastly, I know Ali and those like him love to read and hear "apologies" from Muslims because he can find easy ways to humiliate them, and the Muslim apologetics/justifiers often find it difficult to defend their argument sharply, usually because the Qur'an DOES ordain Muslims (implicitly) to be PREPARED to DEFEND the innocent (particularly Muslim innocents) against violent offensives from other people (even if they are Muslims). So Ali is not wrong in that the Qur'an orders Muslims to fight...but he does not tell you the whole truth, which is that Muslims are ordered to DEFEND (first non-violently to an appropriate extent, and then violently if necessary against other WARRIORS/SOLDIERS/MURDERERS, not innocent men, women and children). This is what distinguishes Islam from other passive religions (such as Buddhism or Jainism), and from other, impassive, offensive and unjust religions. Islam is the balance of good characteristics from all religions because God revealed His message to the early prophets of those religions (which don’t include man-made religions), but His commands often went unheeded and/or distorted. God has confirmed, however, that Islam is the last religion and thus will not be tainted in the long run, even though there will be (and are now) people who will try to distort it by lying and sinning in its name. And if anyone still cares, read the Qur'an (with the understanding that true meaning is often lost in translation) and count how many times God commands us to have mercy and love for His creation and how many times he commands us to be prepared/willing to fight (in DEFENSE), and you will find the former to outweigh the latter significantly. Please, everybody, study Islam (not Muslims) with a little more of a sincere and honest attitude than Ali. There is no compulsion in Islam (as clearly stated in the chapter 2 of the Qur'an, near the end), and so I am not compelling you to believe what I am saying (and nor were the prophets of God). I am just spreading my beliefs by the sword of intellect, and not the sword of hatred An easy way to search through the Qur’an for verses, topics, etc. (with multiple translations) is through the following link: http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/. Picktall’s translations are known to be good. Search names like Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, John, Zachariah, Adam, love, mercy, defend, fight, and anything you want in the word search box, and you will be surprised what the Qur’an has in store. Verse 2:190 (Picktall), for example, is just one indication of the beauty of God’s words. If you care about and want to judge other human beings fairly (just as you would like them to do to you), the least you can do is read about their beliefs from authentic sources, and the worst you can do is simply accept what the many hate-mongers who try to belittle them say (and these hate-mongers come from every group, including Muslims), because that is the easy (and thus dangerous) way out.

Finaeem, you are right the Koran and Hadith contain many tolerant passages, but what you and your ilk continue to ignore are all the passages that justify murder, jihad, intolerance, etc...Let's talk "reality" for a minute and get our heads out of the text books. How can one realistically explain all the Islamic acts of medieval cruelty that are committed in the name of Allah, or in which those committing the inhumane crimes read passages from the Koran as they carry out their heartless acts. You are the one who is doing the cherry picking, not me. I readily acknowledge the Koran and Hadith has both good and evil in it. You are the one who chooses to ignore the many cruel and vindictive passages. Finally, you also conveniently ignore the fact that Mohammed and his fellow warriors took part in warfare, rape, enslavement, etc...What message does this send to Muslims?

In response to Ali: The Qur'an and Hadith deal with all aspects of the human experience. War is a natural response to the the presence of oppression and persecution. The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight against injustice and oppression through their hands, minds, and hearts. It is terrorists and Islamophobics who cherry pick quotes without any respect to historical context of the reveleations. They ignore commands on the etiquette of war by the Prophet for example: "Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone." It is clear your knowledge of Islam and the Quran is flawed. As the quote from 2:216, you take out of the whole context of the lesser Jihad (physical Jihad) 2:190 And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. (note: LIMITS like the one given by the Prophet. Terrorist groups transgress the limits by waging war in un-Islamic ways like sucidie bombings, killing civilians, etc.)

Mukhtar, You write, "Since 9/11, there have been an innumerous number of suicide bombers, beheadings and many more acts of violence that were all done by Muslims and under the name of God, but it sincerely puzzles me to see such heinous crimes being committed by Muslims." Given your observation about how Islam is responsible for so many acts of horror and brutality wouldn't this suggest you are cherry-picking the verses from the Koran or Hadiths that support your point of view and do not represent verses in Islam's holy books that encourage jihad and killing? After all how else could one explain away the "innumerous number" of Muslim acts of horror you point out. In fact have not many of the Muslims who participated in the beheadings and other crimes against humanity quoted chapter and verse from the Koran while carrying out their heinous acts? Frankly speaking, I get pretty tired of those who apologize for Islamic acts of terrorism, instead of seeing them for what they are adn why they are so innumerable, and counting. Until we stop making excuses for Islam and start looking at Islam cearly and honestly we will see no change. Let me close by reminding everyone that Mohammed was a warrior who participated in killing non-Muslims and encouraged his followers to do the same. And here are a couple of Koranic verses that encourage acts of violence and Jihad: -1- ``Fighting is prescribed for you'' (Koran 2:216); -2- ``Slay them wherever you find them'' (Koran 4:89); -3- ``Fight the idolators utterly'' (Koran 9:36);